MACON-BIBB COUNTY ROAD IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM PUBLIC HEARING HELD ON: APRIL 29, 1999 HELD AT: PORTER COMMUNITY CENTER MACON, GEORGIA PROJECT: SARDIS CHURCH ROAD ------------------------------------------------------------- Reported By: Patricia C. Ussery, CCR B-1238 CLAUDE JOINER REPORTING SERVICE, INC. P. O. BOX 94 - 410 AMERICAN FEDERAL BUILDING MACON, GEORGIA 31202-0094 TELEPHONE: 912/742-6611 OR 912/746-7804 2 1 MODERATOR: Good evening. If you would 2 take your seats, please, so we can get started. Good 3 evening. Everyone take a seat, please. You've got to 4 get here early to get a seat in the back. 5 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. 6 MODERATOR: Good evening. Thanks for 7 coming to the first meeting of the Sardis Church/Walton 8 Road Project. My name is Bruce Smith. I'm with 9 Kimberly, Horne and Associates. We're located in 10 Atlanta. And we've been asked by the county to prepare 11 some concept studies and look at alternates for this 12 project and try to kick things off and do traffic studies 13 and look at environmental issues along the corridor also. 14 And the first meeting, this is the first meeting 15 we've had on the project. I just want to emphasize at 16 this point that we haven't done any work as far as 17 alignments, and we haven't looked at anything yet. We've 18 done some preliminary, just some preliminary work as far 19 as looking at some things that I know are important to 20 all you folks, specifically with cultural, historical 21 aspects of the projects that we've gotten from the D.O.T. 22 The Georgia D.O.T. has done some preliminary 23 investigations as far as historical investigations at 24 historic sites; and, also, looking at other issues having 25 to do with wetlands and where wetlands are right now, 3 1 where the historic sites are right now, where maybe an 2 historic district may be along the project. And we want 3 to be sensitive to that so that we don't impact or 4 disrupt those important areas. 5 So right now, this meeting really is, it's really a 6 meeting for all you folks to give us some input on what 7 you want from the project, what your concerns are about 8 the project, what some of your desires may be for this 9 project. And it's really an opportunity for you to voice 10 your concerns before we've started any engineering, 11 before we've started looking at any alignments. 12 Let me introduce my other team member. I'm sorry. 13 Robin Webb from Tribble & Richardson. She's also on our 14 team. She's going to be here to answer questions, too, 15 along with some of the County officials, Van Etheridge 16 and his staff. 17 But this is really an opportunity for you to voice 18 your input now before we start any engineering work. And 19 that's important because we want to get you on board to 20 have your support for this project, too. That's 21 important from a whole public involvement process. 22 And the way we'd like to do this is that I think for 23 this meeting is we're going to introduce a few other 24 county officials, and they would like to speak. And what 25 we've got here is we've got some comment cards on the two 4 1 tables in the back, and we'd like to have you, if you 2 have time here, to fill those out now while you're here 3 this evening. And you can just leave them in the box on 4 the way out. And I've also got, anyone who doesn't have 5 time, I've got some self-addressed stamped ones you can 6 take with you, comment cards, that you can fill in your 7 comments. Take them with you, and just fold it in half, 8 staple it and just drop it in the mailbox. And we're 9 going to compile all your comments and look at where some 10 of the major issues are. And that will help us decide 11 where are some of the alignments that we want to look at. 12 I think we'll address some questions after I 13 introduce Mr. Justice. The Chairman would like to speak 14 first for a few minutes, and we'll be around to answer 15 your questions. And I've got some aerial mapping. We 16 have some aerial mapping up there, too, just to kind of 17 give us a reference if maybe any of you live along the 18 corridor there that you can kind of get a reference to 19 where your property is. And we'll be happy to talk with 20 you and answer any questions that you have. And we can 21 answer questions right now about how we're going to do a 22 traffic study or look at some environmental issues. We 23 know where some of the issues are along the corridor 24 right now, where some of the important aspects are. Let 25 me introduce Chairman Justice, and he would like to come 5 1 up and make a few comments. 2 CHAIRMAN JUSTICE: Also, all of you, if you 3 don't feel like filling out a card, you can come up and 4 make public statements and state your name and your 5 address and telephone number. We have a court reporter 6 that will be able to pick up that information, and that 7 will go into the record as well in case you don't want to 8 actually fill something out. 9 As was stated, the whole area is blank. There is no 10 preconceived route, except you know that you're going to 11 have a Sardis Church interchange and you've got 247. 12 Beyond that, it's up to you as to where the route 13 actually goes. 14 I told some of our representatives that I would come 15 here at this public meeting and personally, as Larry 16 Justice, not representing the Board, but as Larry 17 Justice, go on record that I'd like to see the route from 18 the interchange to try to avoid, as it goes toward 247, 19 to try to avoid as much residential as possible, and move 20 down south and come back into the airport someplace down 21 south. By doing that, you're going to have the least 22 disruptive route possible, and I think that this could be 23 done. It will be a little tricky because you've got some 24 wetlands down there that you're going to have to deal 25 with. But I personally would like to see the route as it 6 1 comes off the interchange to move to the south, avoid the 2 residential, and come back into the airport. And I go on 3 record in saying that. 4 We have some other elected officials with us here. 5 Joe Allen, Commissioner Allen, I think he'd like to make 6 some remarks, too. 7 COMMISSIONER ALLEN: As most of you all know, I 8 stood up here before and told you I did not like the way 9 Houston Road was being done. I still don't like. I 10 thought we ought to stand by what we said we was going to 11 do. I'm here tonight talking about Sardis Church Road. 12 I have never ever said I did not want an interchange at 13 Sardis Church Road. I've always said, and you all have 14 heard me, that I wanted an interchange there. I don't 15 like an interchange to come through a residential area. 16 I don't want it to. I want you all to go as far south as 17 you all can. Doug Dickey had a good idea. It just 18 couldn't happen the way he wanted to do it, take it that 19 far south. But I do think that you all will be able to 20 construct the plan to put it south and keep it away from 21 the residents and take it to the airport where it is 22 supposed to be. That's what I want to see done. And any 23 way I can help, I will do it. And I go on record saying 24 that right here. I'll turn it over to Jim Lee. 25 COUNCILMAN LEE: You know, you're my people 7 1 out here in South Macon and South Bibb County. That's 2 where my interests have been for the last fifty years. 3 I'm not directly connected with this. I have no 4 political reason to be here other than the fact that I 5 want to know what's going on and I want to keep up with 6 what's going on and the development that is going on. 7 I mean encouraged by the fact, and I didn't know 8 this when I got here, that there are no plans actually 9 drawn up and put up there to show where this road is 10 going and which property is going to be affected. I 11 think this is the way it should be, that the people 12 become involved from the very outset. Then you can 13 certainly develop something that is more in keeping with 14 what the people want, what the needs are, and try to 15 balance between what the needs are and what the people 16 want, and try to get something everybody can be at least 17 willing to live with. So this is the way I think it 18 ought to be. Let people get involved from the start. 19 There is no route laid down at all, and I'm very 20 gratified that that's the way it is. 21 And I'm not going to be able to stay for the whole 22 meeting, but I did want to come out and just see what was 23 going on because I am interested in whatever is in South 24 Macon and out here because what happens out here is going 25 to affect part of Macon, or all of Macon, certainly the 8 1 south part of Macon. So that's why I'm here. Thank you. 2 MODERATOR: I think I failed to 3 mention, also, that if you want to give a verbal comment, 4 you can come up to the court reporter after the meeting 5 and also express your comments that way. Another thing I 6 failed to point out at the beginning, too, is, of course, 7 the purpose of the project is to provide access from I-75 8 to 247 and provide better access to the airport, too, and 9 to accommodate future growth in that corridor. 10 We're going to have a chance for anyone who wants to 11 to get up and speak. But I think maybe what I can do now 12 is to answer any questions you may have at this point in 13 the project. Maybe if I field some of those questions, 14 it might answer some of the questions that you have in 15 mind. 16 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You say the only objectives 17 are to go from I-75 to 247. I'm sure that they are more 18 defined than that. And the thing is before we can say 19 what we would recommend, we sort of have to know what the 20 real objectives are. 21 MODERATOR: As far as the purpose of 22 the project you mean? 23 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, the thing is there is 24 any number of routes that you can get from I-75 to 247. 25 In fact, I-75 crosses 247 from that standpoint. 9 1 MODERATOR: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 2 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did mention the 3 airport. Are we talking about access from Macon down 75 4 to get to the airport? You know, what are the real 5 objectives? What are we trying to, are we just trying to 6 make end links that goes from 75 to 247? 7 MODERATOR: Well, my understanding is 8 that the D.O.T., the proposed interchange, obviously it's 9 the tying of the proposed interchange with Sardis Church 10 with the D.O.T., so that is the beginning point. And the 11 terminus has to be 247. 12 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. Does it have to be 13 right at Sardis Church Road, or can it be plus or minus a 14 mile? 15 MODERATOR: I don't, I'm not going to 16 say it absolutely has to be at Sardis Church Road, but 17 that is where the D.O.T. would prefer it to begin, for 18 the project to begin. It's a logical beginning point 19 because there's some growth along that Sardis Church Road 20 corridor right now, or in the future, and there's also 21 growth around the interchange, where the proposed 22 interchange is, too, in that area. 23 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is the objective on the 24 other end, the airport end, is the objective to tie it to 25 the Industrial Park or to have access for people to get 10 1 to the airport? 2 MODERATOR: I think it's, the real 3 objective probably is to tie it to 247 and to provide 4 access to the Industrial Park and the airport, also, at 5 the same time. So there's a dual objective there. 6 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But which Industrial Park, 7 the Corporate Connector or the Industrial Park at the 8 airport? It appears that that's one of the objectives 9 that we've heard. 10 MODERATOR: Yeah. Well, from my 11 understanding we're trying to tie it in to the Industrial 12 Park at the airport. Well, that whole industrial area 13 around the airport itself and to provide access to the 14 airport. And I think that's an important economic 15 consideration for the area. 16 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we had the last 17 meeting at the school a few months ago, one of the things 18 that was discussed was that they wanted a direct corridor 19 between the new Corporate Connector over there between 20 Sardis Church Road, Hartley Bridge Road, and the I-75, 21 and a landfill over on 475 or the Industrial Park at the 22 airport. Which is it, or both of them. 23 MODERATOR: I don't -- 24 CHAIRMAN JUSTICE: I probably, I can answer 25 that. 11 1 MODERATOR: Go ahead, sir. I'm going 2 to use this up here, and why don't we pass this around. 3 CHAIRMAN JUSTICE: That might be better. I 4 can answer that question because basically the property 5 that's been purchased was not even thought about, not 6 even conceived, and a lot of you folks know me, and I'm 7 telling you that now. Basically, we have been working 8 through MATS for years to try to get an interchange at 9 Sardis Church Road. Basically, we finally got the 10 Federal D.O.T. to give us a break in the interchange 11 provided we would build a connector to 247. You've got 12 that at Hartley Bridge by way of Houston and on out Allen 13 Road. So they required us to do that. This land bill 14 came way later in this process. It sounds like it's all 15 tied together, but it was not tied together. I can 16 assure you at that. The only way we could get the 17 interchange was to agree to do this. But, fortunately, 18 we were able to do some begging and pleading to get the 19 Federal Highway Administration to build the road, the 20 connector road, for us, after we got it through and 21 talked, and went through MATS and talked to the people 22 and talked to the Georgia D.O.T. and all the others. So 23 that's how that came about. 24 I can assure you there's not a landfill that's going 25 to go anywhere in South Bibb County. I doubt if there's 12 1 a landfill that's going to go in Bibb County period that 2 I know of. I don't know anything about any landfill, 3 plain and simple, period. I know that that was a rampant 4 rumor down here, but I can assure you that's not the 5 case. There was nothing in the legislation, as all of 6 you know, that passed dealing with any landfill other 7 than to close the City landfill. That was it. 8 That property will not be cut up or used for strip 9 type cutting up that would generate more of a problem as 10 far as piecemeal type stuff. That site will stay in one 11 site. The reason that was done like this was that 12 Industry and Trade said that we needed a world class type 13 site on the Interstate, campus type setting, one industry 14 only, one industry for that whole property in the bulk of 15 the property there, one in the big piece. Possibly we 16 could attract a chip company or some high tech industry 17 or something like that. 18 And, basically, we've done, even way before that, we 19 hired one of the best consultants around, Lockwood Green. 20 They came and looked at all of Bibb County and identified 21 that as one of the tracts that was good for a world class 22 site. Matter of fact, it's ironic but the other one is 23 up in Monroe County, which is the Oglethorpe Power site. 24 It's 1500 acres, I think, or somewhere around there. So 25 you've got a north world class site now, and you're going 13 1 to have a south world class site. 2 We've all committed that that site will not be cut 3 up. It will stay in one piece for one large industry. 4 And, hopefully, it will be a big, high tech type 5 industry, and that's basically what we're looking for. 6 Did that answer all your questions on that? And I 7 hope -- 8 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess I'm still, on the 9 other end, it doesn't matter whether this road that goes 10 to 247 goes north or south of the airport, as long as 11 you've got access into the airport from it and this sort 12 of thing, right? 13 CHAIRMAN JUSTICE: Benny, I hope that we, that 14 what all of you agree to, and what we hear you all say is 15 that you'd like to see it kind of swing south and go back 16 into the airport because I think that would be a good 17 route. 18 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The thing is, Allendale 19 Mill Road now runs by I guess it's Boeing, who is it, 20 McDonnell Douglas, whoever they are. 21 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's Boeing. 22 CHAIRMAN JUSTICE: McDonnell Douglas and now 23 Boeing. 24 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever they are now, it 25 goes down Avondale Mill Road and then it makes a turn and 14 1 goes across the runway path and makes another turn. But 2 if you came straight from that extension of the part 3 that's in front of McDonnell Douglas down there, and came 4 on around, pretty well follow the creek up to the 5 Interstate, that would be the least intrusive and 6 probably the best route, because one of the things that 7 causes a lot of traffic in this neighborhood is traffic 8 coming from Robins that cuts across and gets on the 9 Interstate and goes out to that side of town. 10 CHAIRMAN JUSTICE: Right. 11 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If this thing, if they 12 could turn off south of the airport there and come across 13 there, you could also tie that back to the, make a nice 14 entrance to the airport terminal from that side. There's 15 just a lot of advantages to coming that route. 16 CHAIRMAN JUSTICE: I agree with that, and I 17 hope that is what all of you think is the proper way to 18 go. Again, as I stated earlier, you can't take it across 19 the swamps and all that because that's going to make for 20 it to be unfeasible, but as long as you keep on high 21 ground and keep it south and tie back into the airport, I 22 don't have anything wrong, see anything wrong with that. 23 MODERATOR: Sir, as Mr. Justice talked 24 about, I think there's a lot of development issues that 25 drive some of these projects, and I think at the 15 1 beginning point of Sardis Church Road, the interchange, 2 the impetus, the reason for the interchange, really, is 3 some of the development issues going on there. I'm not 4 familiar with the history about it, but I appreciate the 5 Chairman talking about that, the Commissioner talking 6 about that, and that's really the beginning of the 7 project. 8 But, also, if you have, during the concept phase 9 right now, we're going to look at a lot of different 10 alternates. 11 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you step closer to 12 the mike, please. 13 MODERATOR: Yeah. During the concept 14 phase, we'll be looking at a lot of different alternates, 15 so I think what you mentioned with an alternate south of 16 the airport is something that we need to hear about now 17 so that we can study that during the concept phase. And 18 I think the gentleman made a good point about, you know, 19 if anyone has ideas about different alternates that we 20 can look at, I think please make your comments known so 21 that we can study those, and we can look at the 22 possibility of doing those alignments and look at the 23 impacts along various alignments. 24 But I think one of the earlier questions this 25 gentleman had was talking about the beginning point of 16 1 the interchange, and we were talking about how the 2 interchange at Sardis Church kind of is the beginning 3 point because of some, it's really being driven by some 4 other land use, the future development type issues in 5 that area of the interchange. So a lot of times these 6 development issues kind of set the beginning point or it 7 kind of started the project rolling. 8 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is the Sardis Church 9 interchange scheduled to be a diamond or a cloverleaf or 10 what? 11 MODERATOR: As a matter of fact, our 12 firm is also working on the interchange for the D.O.T. 13 under a separate contract, so we're preparing design 14 plans right now for the interchange. We had, initially 15 we were looking at a diamond type interchange. However, 16 that is probably going to be revised now because of some 17 issues having to do with some historic properties within 18 the interchange area. So those environmental issues are 19 kind of driving the design of the interchange 20 configuration, if you will, in that area. So we really 21 haven't, we haven't even finished preliminary design on 22 the interchange yet. So we're still looking at that. 23 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are the historic 24 things? 25 MODERATOR: Pardon? 17 1 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where are the historic 2 things you're talking about? 3 MODERATOR: There's a couple. There's 4 a farm homestead site that's in the northeast quadrant, 5 and there is also another site, historic site, that's on 6 the south side of Sardis Church, further west, or east of 7 the interchange, further east of I-75. So those are the 8 two historic issues that have come up right now. 9 MS. WEBB: Bruce, you have a question 10 back here. 11 MODERATOR: Sure. Yeah. 12 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If we can ask, also, for 13 you to repeat the question. 14 MODERATOR: Okay. Sure. 15 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some of the questions we 16 can't hear. 17 MODERATOR: Okay. 18 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you mind putting a 19 map up so we all know what you're talking about and where 20 you're talking about -- 21 MODERATOR: Okay. 22 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- instead of someone's 23 interpretation being different than another. If you can 24 show us in black and white for everybody. 25 MODERATOR: Okay. I'll tell you what, 18 1 let me just look back at this map back here that we have 2 back on the wall. As you can see, we've done, this is 3 just an aerial map. It's flown at a very high altitude, 4 and there was a good bit of fog cover that day, and we 5 didn't get an opportunity to get the best map we could, 6 but this is just an aerial map. As you can see, there is 7 no alignment on here right now. 8 This is an aerial that shows a corridor from the 9 interchange, the proposed interchange at I-75 and Sardis 10 Church Road, and we just called it I-75 North/South, 11 north up towards Atlanta being north. And then we 12 proceed down Sardis Church Road where it ties into 13 Houston Road and becomes Walden Road. And then this is 14 an area in here where there's a lot of different 15 alignment possibilities. 16 I think the gentleman here was talking about some 17 type alignment to the south here where we'd tie into the 18 south, there's a road that's on the south side of the 19 airport. Is that correct, sir. 20 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's correct. 21 MS. WEBB: So what he's speaking of is 22 the western terminus of our project would be I-75 and the 23 eastern terminus of the project would be 247. 24 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible). 25 MODERATOR: This southern, okay, I saw 19 1 this before. We haven't, the only thing that we've 2 looked, the southern route down in this area here is 3 there is some impact having to do with wetlands because 4 of the creek down there. I'm not going to pronounce the 5 name because I won't get it right, but we're aware of 6 that possibility down there. 7 As far as the interchange itself at I-75 and Sardis 8 Church, it's a good place for the interchange because of 9 the proposed development, future development in that 10 area, and some of the plans the County has, as the 11 Commissioner was talking about earlier. 12 But then we come over here to the eastern edge of 13 the project where Hawkinsville Road, or 247, Highway 247, 14 is, and the Industrial Park in this area; and, then, the 15 airport, of course, to the south down here. But we're 16 aware of a lot of historical district issues in this area 17 here. And there's a creek that runs in here also where 18 there's some potential wetlands issues also. 19 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the last question 20 was concerning the historical area around the Sardis 21 Church Road Interchange that you mentioned a few minutes 22 earlier. 23 MODERATOR: Okay. I'll show you that. 24 There's one right here. It's in the northeast quadrant 25 of the interchange. We know that for a fact. And I 20 1 believe the other historic site is, I want to say it's 2 right east of Nowell Road. It's right in here on the 3 south side of Sardis Church east of Nowell Road. There's 4 a home, it's an older home. We were out there earlier, 5 but it's in this area on the south side of Sardis Church 6 just east of Nowell Road. 7 Okay, the other question was how many lanes will the 8 connector be? That's somewhere in the process of being 9 worked on right now to determine a typical section, what 10 we call it, to determine how many lanes that we need to 11 handle the future projected traffic along the corridor. 12 And I've got a chart here that basically shows how we go 13 about developing the traffic studies, the concept 14 studies. I'll be happy to answer any questions on that. 15 What we're doing right now is we're in the early stages 16 so we're collecting traffic counts, turning movement 17 counts, at some of the intersections. Those are just 18 present counts during the morning and evening rush hours. 19 And then we're also collecting machine counts, or what we 20 call 24-hour counts, along the corridor. And from those 21 counts we'll project into the future with the, we'll 22 combine them with what the projected land use patterns 23 are and determine what the future projected volumes are, 24 and that will determine how many lanes it will be. So 25 right now we don't know. 21 1 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any idea of how 2 much traffic will be relieved off of Hartley Bridge Road? 3 MODERATOR: We haven't gotten that far 4 into the traffic study right now to answer that. The 5 next, at the next meeting we'll be able to talk about 6 some of the traffic counts, what we've been able to, the 7 traffic model that we have, and we'll also discuss, you 8 know, after we get your comments we want to look at some 9 of the alignments, and we want to take into consideration 10 some of the issues all of you with the project itself, 11 the different alignments. Can I have another question, 12 please? 13 COMMISSIONER ALLEN: I've got a question. Did 14 you say the interchange was located on the west side of 15 the historic home or on the east side? 16 MODERATOR: Pardon me? 17 COMMISSIONER ALLEN: I've got a question. Did 18 you say the interchange was located on the west side of 19 the historic home or on the east side? 20 MODERATOR: There's an historic site on 21 the northeast quadrant. 22 COMMISSIONER ALLEN: The northeast quadrant? 23 MODERATOR: Northeast. And there's 24 another, the third site, on the south side between Nowell 25 Road and Everett Drive, these two roads right here. It's 22 1 just somewhere in here. And there's another site, 2 there's a site right here that's a farm, homestead, 3 farmstead. There's a farm house in there. 4 (**REPORTER'S NOTE: At this point there were inaudible 5 multiple comments from multiple people all talking at once in 6 the back of the room.**) 7 MODERATOR: It's directly across from 8 Nowell Road. It's right here directly across from Nowell 9 Road. 10 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible). 11 MODERATOR: I'm just saying that's 12 another historic site right there. 13 MR. STUBBS: Folks, I am David Stubbs. 14 I'm with the Georgia D.O.T. And I came to the meeting 15 tonight because it's true, the Georgia D.O.T., we're 16 working on the interchange project. Of course, the 17 interchange project is joined at the hip with the four- 18 lane project that Bibb County is doing over at 247. What 19 we have done is some cursory environmental studies. And 20 let me try to back up and explain just a little bit when 21 we say historic resources. 22 If everybody, if a house is on the National Historic 23 Register, you know, that's gone to Washington, D.C., and 24 if the Council for Historic Preservation says, yes, this 25 is Tara, it should be protected, we'll place this on the 23 1 National Record of Historic Places. The way that the 2 Federal laws are written, when we're using Federal funds, 3 and we will be using Federal funds for the Interstate, 4 the Interstate interchange, I mean the interchange on the 5 Interstate, we'll be using Federal funds. The way the 6 Federal laws are written are if something is on the 7 National Register, or if it is even eligible to be on the 8 Register, it has the same protection. 9 Now, what makes it basically eligible, and I'm just 10 an old South Georgia country boy, and I've tried to learn 11 a few of these environmental laws, if a house is 12 basically more than fifty years old and has never had any 13 major alterations, you know, no interior walls been 14 knocked out to make great rooms, none of the windows have 15 been removed and put in with big, old, plate glass 16 windows, but if it has basically been intact for the last 17 fifty years, then under the law, and this was the 18 National Historic Preservation Act created in 1966 by 19 Congress, our Department of Natural Resources can deem 20 whether or not it is eligible for the National Register. 21 It doesn't have to be placed on the National Register, 22 but even if it has all the characteristics that would 23 make it eligible, then the Federal laws require us to 24 protect it. 25 Now, you're right, I've heard the same story. I've 24 1 heard that both these quadrants here, some realty agent 2 might have them under contract and they might be removed. 3 Well, if they're removed tomorrow, then, you know, 4 there's nothing I can do about it. You, as a property 5 owner, you can do anything in the world you want to with 6 your own property when it comes to this sort of 7 resources. But, myself, as a Government employee using 8 Federal funds, which are your funds, the laws passed by 9 Congress says I can't mess with it. You can do whatever 10 you want to with it, but when I use Federal funds, I 11 can't. 12 So, if the houses are out there when the 13 environmental work is done, then we have to try to do 14 whatever we can to avoid them. Now, if they're not, 15 well, they're not. I mean am I making any sense? I'll 16 shut up. 17 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible). 18 MR. STUBBS: Well, I'm not trying to, 19 this is Bruce's. 20 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible). 21 MR. STUBBS: Yes, sir. The bridge is 22 only two lanes wide, so it will probably have to be 23 redone. 24 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible). 25 MR. STUBBS: Oh, sure. I mean 25 1 construction costs are cheaper if it is straight across. 2 I-75 is straight across. We're probably follow that basic 3 alignment. 4 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you went down Fulton 5 Mill Road and came back in here and made a loop like and 6 bring it across here and bring it down at the road that's 7 built into the industrial park now, bring that road on 8 down and come across here and cross about this far down 9 and then make it 90 degrees, you would miss all these 10 houses along this road and bring it on down through here, 11 and you'd cut out a lot of -- (applause - Inaudible 12 comments). 13 MR. STUBBS: Folks, that is exactly why 14 Bruce and the folks from Bibb County are down here 15 tonight. We literally are, and I'm going to try to speak 16 for Bruce and the folks from Bibb County, but we 17 literally do want you all to help us draw some 18 alternatives to look at. I mean, really, we do. I hope 19 Bruce doesn't mind me bringing this up, but we would you 20 like for you all to draw exactly what you're talking 21 about. That's what Bruce is down here for. 22 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible). 23 MR. STUBBS: That's a great idea. 24 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible). 25 MR. STUBBS: Well, that's what we're 26 1 here for tonight. If you all can come up -- 2 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it the Georgia D.O.T. or 3 Bibb County and will you meet with us? 4 MR. STUBBS: It's the Georgia D.O.T. and 5 Bibb County working together because we're looking at the 6 interchange and Bibb County is looking at a four-lane. 7 So, sure, I mean any kind Bruce can meet, we'll be happy 8 to meet with you. Next week, name the day. 9 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible). 10 MR. STUBBS: Yes, ma'am. Well, I don't 11 know about Houston Road, but we do have to go through the 12 -- 13 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible). 14 MR. STUBBS: The State of Georgia has 15 the final call, not D.O.T. The State DNR has the final 16 say-so. 17 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I understand that, and I 18 appreciate your offering to help us out. I wonder if 19 there is any way that can be looked at again? 20 MR. STUBBS: Oh, sure. I'll be glad to 21 look at it if you'll tell me which house you're talking 22 about. I mean I can give you a call tomorrow. 23 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. Great. Thank you. 24 MODERATOR: Some other questions? 25 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would like to know why -- 27 1 MODERATOR: Let me get the mike to you 2 so everybody can hear you. 3 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most of you know who I am. 4 I know that preliminary plans have already been drawn for 5 that area. And I wonder why you don't have one of those 6 plans tonight to show us right here? 7 MODERATOR: Your question was why we 8 don't have alignments, yet; is that right, sir? 9 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Preliminary plans that's 10 already been drawn for the, showing the Sardis Church 11 Road and Skipper Road. It's showing the road, how it 12 comes on up Sardis Church. And the reason I asked that 13 question, I talked to somebody in Atlanta yesterday, and 14 they said there would be somebody here tonight with this 15 preliminary plan. 16 MODERATOR: Well, I did, but I left 17 them out in the rain and they got wet, and I couldn't 18 bring them here. No, seriously, we have not done any 19 work, any alignment yet. 20 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Atlanta, Georgia. I 21 don't know about the alignment but -- 22 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've seen them. 23 MODERATOR: Pardon? 24 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've seen them. 25 MODERATOR: What kind of alignments 28 1 have you seen? 2 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It shows it -- 3 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It shows the road, it shows 4 my house and everybody else's house along there. And the 5 people from the gas company and -- 6 MODERATOR: Okay. 7 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- Bell Telephone, the 8 telephone company, they're getting measurements for the 9 cables and all the water lines and everything where 10 they're being put. Now, I think someone knows something 11 about that. 12 MODERATOR: I think the County may have 13 done some preliminary work, but as the consultant working 14 for the County, we are taking a fresh start approach. We 15 are not following anything that was done before, any type 16 of alignments that were shown before. This is start from 17 scratch. I'm sincere in saying that we haven't put 18 anything down on paper yet, any alignments. I, myself, 19 or our firm hasn't putting anything down on topographic 20 paper yet, topographic maps. 21 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They know about it in 22 Atlanta, I'll put it that way. 23 MODERATOR: Pardon? 24 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They knew about it in 25 Atlanta. They was looking at the same plans there that I 29 1 was looking at. 2 MODERATOR: At the D.O.T., sir? 3 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir. 4 MODERATOR: It could have been, it must 5 have been done, it could have been done by somebody else. 6 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a preliminary plan, 7 yes. 8 MODERATOR: Well, they couldn't be 9 preliminary plans because we're still working on concept 10 plans. 11 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I know how you spell 12 preliminary and it was stamped across the plans. 13 MODERATOR: I don't know how to answer 14 that because I've never seen any plans that were done, 15 and that's all I can -- 16 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can speak to that issue. 17 MODERATOR: Okay. 18 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I met with Mr. Joe Palotti, 19 who is with the Georgia D.O.T. about a month ago along 20 with Senator Susan Cable to review particularly the 21 Sardis Church Road interchange and where it might be 22 located. And at that review, there's a plan in place 23 that shows the interchange exactly at Sardis Church Road. 24 It shows the D.O.T. portion of the roadway going almost 25 to Goodall Mill Road. It stops short of that particular 30 1 location and the wetlands that are located in that area. 2 And then, from what Mr. Palotti had indicated, from that 3 point forward it comes under a different funding process. 4 Now, I'm sure this is what they're talking about. 5 Whether or not that is a plan that's in place, I mean 6 only you can answer that, but there is something on 7 record at D.O.T. that shows exactly what's been referred 8 to here. 9 MODERATOR: I don't disagree with you 10 there's some plans for the interchange. There are plans 11 for the interchange. 12 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the road all the way to 13 Goodall Mill Road. 14 MODERATOR: How far is that from 75? 15 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three-quarters of a mile 16 past the interchange. 17 MODERATOR: Okay. Well, that is 18 because that's all part of the interchange. I don't 19 disagree with you there is probably, there's, we've done 20 the plans on it, we've done the preliminary plans on the 21 interchange as well. But from Skipper Road to the east 22 to 247 there hasn't been anything done. 23 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Goodall Mill is much east 24 of Skipper Road. 25 MODERATOR: I know our plans end at 31 1 Skipper. I'm not sure where Goodall is in relation to 2 Skipper. 3 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess our question is 4 what D.O.T. has on record, does that have any validity? 5 I mean if it doesn't, I mean I think you've kind of eased 6 some of our concerns at least about that part of it. 7 MODERATOR: I can assure that there are 8 plans, preliminary plans, on the interchange at Sardis 9 Church. But, as far as I know, we haven't done any 10 plans, prepared any plans, that go further east of 11 Skipper Road. Now, as the Commissioner spoke about 12 earlier, the purpose, the need for the interchange, the 13 reason for the interchange at Sardis Church and 75 is 14 driven by future growth and development issues as he 15 discussed before. But I can assure you we haven't done 16 any plans that go any further east of Skipper Road at 17 this point. And the plans that our firm has done for the 18 D.O.T. do encompass the interchange area, but primarily 19 they go east of I-75 just to taper the lanes back down so 20 you're back down to two lanes because we do have a bridge 21 replacement to do at Sardis Church. Some other 22 questions, please? 23 MS. MADISON: Yes, I have a question. I'm a little 24 confused. 25 MS. WEBB: Would you state your name, 32 1 please. 2 MS. MADISON: Harriet Madison. I'm a 3 little confused. We were here at one meeting and they 4 said Sardis Church would be four-laned, and now we're 5 talking we're not sure of how many lanes it will be 6 depending on the desired use or need. So, therefore, we 7 are still talking, we're not talking about moving south 8 yet, we're still talking about Sardis Church. But what 9 is, exactly, the plan for the number of lanes for Sardis 10 Church? 11 MODERATOR: I can't honestly say that. 12 I don't know where now you've gotten the information 13 about the number of the lanes, but what we, we have not 14 done anything, any concept report. We have not done the 15 concept, the traffic studies yet, that can tell us how 16 many lanes are required. 17 COMMISSIONER ALLEN: Excuse me. 18 MODERATOR: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER ALLEN: We were told, I was told 20 that it had to be four lanes to tie in with Houston Road? 21 Am I right, Van? There was going to be a thing about 22 that. 23 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gentleman back here in 24 the back just made a comment that the County was looking 25 at four lanes on Sardis Church Road. Now, that's where I 33 1 got it just a few minutes ago. 2 COMMISSIONER ALLEN: That was told to me, Van. 3 It was also told it was going to tie in, because of 4 Houston Road we was going to take it to the airport and 5 we were going to move it away from the property out here. 6 Now, this thing, this is new to me. I know there is no 7 such thing as a done deal, but, you know, we're at a 8 point in time we've got to know something for these 9 people out there. They live here. 10 MR. ETHERIDGE: Well, as you know, the Road 11 Program has done a lot of work in this area, especially 12 as it relates to traffic volumes, and we had hired a firm 13 to look at volumes on Houston that were checked before 14 that project ever got into the final stages. And that 15 study showed that with the Sardis Church interchange in 16 place at Sardis, it would probably generate four-lane 17 traffic, the need would be for four-lane traffic. Now, 18 east of Houston on Walden and all, at that time it looked 19 like it might not be four-lane traffic. Now, the study 20 that he is doing is a brand new study looking 21 specifically at Sardis Church Road. And this will be a 22 new study, and we will be governed by what his study 23 shows and the land use that supports the traffic. 24 COMMISSIONER ALLEN: Hold on just a second. I 25 was told the reason Houston Road had to be five lanes out 34 1 there was because Sardis Church Road had to have four 2 lanes and had to have an interchange. Now, if this is 3 going to change, what's he going to do out here? 4 MR. ETHERIDGE: Well, I don't think it's 5 going to change, but the process has to be gone through. 6 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you speak up, please, 7 sir. 8 MR. ETHERIDGE: The process has to be gone 9 through to determine what the traffic is going to be to 10 be able to justify what we do come up with. 11 COMMISSIONER ALLEN: Will that redirect Houston 12 Road, then, because this directed Houston Road? 13 MR. ETHERIDGE: Redirect it? 14 COMMISSIONER ALLEN: Yeah, redirect what goes on 15 out here? 16 MR. ETHERIDGE: No, I don't think it would. 17 COMMISSIONER ALLEN: I'm sorry, Van, I've got a 18 problem with that. 19 MODERATOR: I just, I want to emphasize 20 the fact, the reason why, I'm not trying to come across 21 as being evasive about this traffic issue even though to 22 you I may be. I'm trying to not have any preconceived 23 notions about where the alignment is going to be, how 24 many lanes we're going to have. That's the point I'm 25 trying to make. Now, it very well could be that it could 35 1 be four lanes for a certain distance and then go down to 2 two lanes. Or it could be two lanes from the 3 interchange, you know, it could be two lanes maybe to 4 Houston Mill and then two lanes after that. It depends 5 on what we come up with with the traffic volumes and when 6 we work with future growth. That's going to be projected 7 along the corridor. Because it is going to grow. That 8 corridor is going to grow. There's going to be growth 9 along that corridor. You can see it already in some 10 instances on Sardis Church where there are subdivisions 11 going in. But I want to emphasize right now that we're 12 not, we're not, it's not going to be four lanes just 13 because we say it's going to be four lanes. It's going 14 to be four lanes or two lanes, or however many lanes it 15 is that we need, because we've come up with some traffic 16 volumes, some existing traffic volumes, with those 17 projected into the future along with the proposed growth 18 along the corridor. Plus, we're going to look at 19 accident data. That has an affect on the traffic study, 20 too, because in some intersections, depending on the 21 amount, the skew of the intersections, for instance, we 22 can affect different changes with reducing the number of 23 accidents. So all of that goes into the traffic model 24 that we're going to be putting together. Yes, sir? 25 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you select an 36 1 unobtrusive route between the Sardis Church Road 2 interchange and Highway 247, most everybody in this room 3 would not care if it was six lanes wide or ten lanes 4 wide. It's when you're going right down through the 5 residential area that we don't want these big wide roads. 6 MODERATOR: I understand your point. I 7 understand what you're saying, sir; however, in some 8 instances the growth is going to come, regardless of 9 whether you want it or not. And you may not be able to 10 stop it -- 11 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can get over to the ten 12 lanes and hop on it. 13 MODERATOR: But how are you going to 14 get there, though? 15 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A two-lane road. 16 MODERATOR: Let me just open it up to 17 people who want to come up and speak now. 18 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've given up an afternoon 19 for putting in a hot water heater to come down here so 20 I'm going to be without hot water tonight. There are a 21 lot of you people here that are a lot better well spoke 22 and a lot more knowledgeable about this than I am. 23 Obviously there are some people who have put a lot of 24 work in this, they've been to Atlanta and did some 25 things, and we appreciate the people that's on our side 37 1 out here. The true friends that we've got out here, we 2 appreciate you and what you've done, okay. 3 It's pretty obvious, the situation out here. The 4 landowners, the homeowners, the people that have put 5 blood, sweat and tears in this community out here, are in 6 a totally different place than these people that are 7 coming in from outside. We have people coming in from 8 Atlanta. We're having politicians coming in. People 9 that didn't give a damn about us until we had something 10 they wanted, and then they're going to come on across 11 from the other side of town, and come over and try to 12 say, well, you know, we need to do this. It's 13 developers. It's the dollar sign, the almighty dollar 14 sign. And that's why we can't agree on what's going on 15 here. 16 One side of it is it's just developers, it's peoples 17 wanting to make money out of us, out of the property out 18 here, what they call economic development. It's going to 19 put money in their pocket. They don't live out in this 20 area. They don't care about this area. But it's going 21 to make money for them. 22 The rest of us that are here, we live out here in 23 this area. We've spent years and years building up, 24 working on our property and everything. I'm sitting here 25 listening to a situation where I've got an old house that 38 1 was build in 1850 or 1860 something. I spent 14 years 2 working on it. And I'm being told that it's not going to 3 be given any consideration because I fixed it up. 4 Whereas the old house sitting over there by the 5 Interstate that's falling down where all they do is sell 6 butter beans off the front porch, now, that's an historic 7 property, you know. And it doesn't make a whole lot of 8 sense, okay. 9 If they'll move the, if the D.O.T. man is here, and 10 I don't think he's listening to me right now, but is it a 11 done deal that the interchange has to be there at the 12 Sardis Church Road? Is that bridge, I mean would it have 13 to be torn down and replaced, would it have to be 14 widened, or could we move it on down the Interstate a 15 little ways, maybe a half mile on down the road and come 16 across those undeveloped areas and through the 17 agricultural land and through the industrial park and not 18 come right through where everybody lives? 19 MR. STUBBS: That's what we are here 20 tonight to hear. If you want us to move it another 21 place, that's what we're here for. 22 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we keep making it 23 very very clear to everybody that comes in here. 24 (Applause). We keep making it very very clear to 25 everybody that comes in here what we want. Basically, 39 1 what we want is we don't want you to disturb the areas 2 that have already been developed, the residential areas 3 that are already there. We don't want you to, you know, 4 run over all that because that should be good for the 5 County, I would think, for all these taxpayers. And if 6 we go out in some other areas that's not developed and we 7 create a road, then people would develop around there. 8 Maybe even business type property, commercial type 9 property, or others, which is going to help the city. 10 But don't come through the areas that's already been 11 built, you know. 12 And I live fairly close to the Interstate. I mean, 13 you know, what you all are talking about, you say, well, 14 you're on past where I live. And now we're talking about 15 something on past there. But let's go back to where the 16 problem is out there and come on in from there. 17 We all know what this is all about. It's got 18 nothing to do, the Government won't rebuild the 19 interchange unless it connects to a major industrial 20 park, okay. And what prompted all this stuff is trying 21 to build the industrial area up out there right on the 22 Interstate. And that's obvious to everybody, okay. 23 All this song and dance, I don't know who hired this 24 gentleman right here, but they need to fire him because 25 he's not prepared. He doesn't know, he doesn't know the 40 1 name of the roads. He doesn't know anything about this 2 area out here. Nothing has been done to understand 3 what's going on; where any distances are, where any roads 4 are, where any directions are. And, you know, it's, you 5 know, I'm sorry, but I've got more business here than you 6 do, okay, and I'm going to have to be honest about it, 7 okay. 8 MS. WEBB: Bruce, I've got a gentleman 9 back here that's who would like to make a comment. 10 MODERATOR: I just want you to 11 recognize that we realize, we recognize the historic 12 nature of the neighborhoods here and the community that 13 you've developed here. We're not just trying to ramrod a 14 roadway through your neighborhoods. If that were the 15 case, we wouldn't even be here having this meeting right 16 now. I've got the southern alignment here. It's an 17 alignment that we can look at. This gentleman over here 18 presented it earlier, and I know the alignment you're 19 talking about. And there are historic issues to deal 20 with. And a lot of those are really determined by 21 cultural or historic people. And there are different 22 issues that go along with that. There are different 23 issues that have to do with what qualifies as a historic 24 site, too. Other questions? 25 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's already touched on 41 1 many of the things I was going to ask. I'm sorry, I 2 don't see the population density that you're talking 3 about that's driving this connection to 247. The reason 4 we're putting this in here is so people can get to Warner 5 Robins that live in Warner Robins. To hell with those 6 people. 7 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amen. 8 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most of this land is 9 bounded by a flood plain. We're not, you're not going to 10 see development going down in that flood plain. 1994 11 took care of that. People are staying the hell away from 12 there. There's not a lot of land out here that's 13 undeveloped. 14 My parents lived in Roswell when they went through 15 their growing pains in the early to mid '80's, and, yet, 16 there was tons of land up there that was undeveloped and 17 massive explosive growth, and they needed to do exactly 18 what you're trying to do here. And they went through the 19 same growing pain. But I don't see enough undeveloped 20 land out here to justify trying to four-lane that road 21 all the way to 247. There isn't enough traffic. You 22 know, we're not sitting for 15 minutes trying to get on 23 247 in the morning. You sit no more than 30 seconds. 24 Now, if you can find a traffic pattern somewhere else 25 around here that people are having to sit 10 or 14 42 1 minutes at a time to get through, then I can understand 2 why you want to make that connection. But nothing that 3 you have presented to us can justify connecting a four- 4 lane road from the Interstate at Sardis Church to 247. 5 MODERATOR: And as I mentioned earlier, 6 I don't necessarily, I'm not saying that it needs to be 7 four lane all the way. 8 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn't need to connect. 9 There is no traffic. I mean you get on Sardis Church in 10 the morning, and you might have two or three cars in 11 front of you. What traffic are you all talking about 12 that's got to make that connection? 13 MODERATOR: I think we're in the 14 process right now of determining that, looking at it in 15 concept studies, looking at the traffic studies and 16 trying to project future growth. But I kind of disagree 17 you a little bit when you say there is no undeveloped 18 land in that area. Along Walden Road or Sardis Church 19 Road there is no undeveloped land? 20 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is bounded, there's 21 creeks on one side and there's an industrial park on the 22 other. And all this undeveloped area, it's only going to 23 grow so big and then it's going to stop. 24 MODERATOR: I mean we're going to use 25 that land. I disagree with you when you say there's not 43 1 undeveloped land. I think there is undeveloped land 2 along Sardis Church and Walden Road, and there's quite a 3 few farmsteads there. You can see that along Sardis 4 Church where there is new subdivisions going in. 5 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't take issue with the 6 interchange on the Interstate. What is driving that it 7 has to connect to 247? That connection is what drives 8 the four lane. 9 MODERATOR: Well -- 10 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone from Warner 11 Robins, every large truck, every high traffic count is 12 going to avoid coming down here through Pio Nono and 247. 13 It's going to be much easier to come down Sardis Church. 14 If you didn't make that connection, you wouldn't have to 15 four lane Sardis Church. You might have to three lane 16 it. 17 MODERATOR: I think that's what we're 18 in the process of doing right now is looking at where the 19 traffic volumes are, where the turning movements are, 20 where the traffic is going. Where it's going now, where 21 it's going to be going in the future. And I think 22 that -- 23 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the check and 24 balance? I haven't heard a trade-off here. Who is 25 trading off? Are you trading us off? What's the trade- 44 1 off, because there's always a trade-off. 2 MODERATOR: How do you mean a trade- 3 off? I mean I -- 4 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The pluses and the minuses. 5 MODERATOR: Well, I can, we can do a 6 plus and minus type matrix, and we can present that at 7 the next meeting. We can talk about, that's what we'll 8 be doing at the next meeting, we'll be coming up with 9 alternatives and based on the comments I have from you 10 all here when you fill out the comment sheets, please do. 11 And -- 12 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I -- 13 MODERATOR: -- I've got different 14 alignments. For instance, there's this southern 15 alignment here. And we'll look at the pluses and minuses 16 of the southern alignment versus the pluses and minuses 17 of different alignments through that area there. 18 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone needs to present 19 what the traffic count difference would be between not 20 connecting to 247 and just taking care of the people that 21 live right here. 22 MODERATOR: I agree. That's called the 23 no build alternative. If we don't build it, what's going 24 to happen. And we're going to present that at the next 25 meeting. 45 1 The purpose of this meeting, really, is to solicit 2 your input so that we know what's important to you, to 3 all of you, when it comes to looking at different 4 alignments. It's not, we don't want to, we're not going 5 to talk about how many lanes the roadways are, or could 6 be, right now because we haven't done the studies for 7 that yet. I don't want to talk about traffic because all 8 we've got is existing traffic counts right now. We'll be 9 happy to talk about it with you at the next meeting. 10 Yes, sir? 11 MR. FAIRCLOTH: My name is John Faircloth. 12 I live at the intersection of Walden and South Walden. 13 I've got a couple of points, and I hope I can make them. 14 I'm like this gentleman, I'm sure there are people that 15 speak well and more eloquently than I can. But the main 16 point I want to make is I have in-laws that live in 17 Atlanta. I sit on their back deck and I hear a constant 18 rumble. They don't even hear it, but it's traffic. They 19 come and sit on my porch, and they say, man, it's so 20 quiet out here, and I don't want that to change. I don't 21 want the constant rumble of traffic when I'm sitting on 22 the porch. I think other people like a quiet, calm, 23 respectable community, and I'd like it to stay that way. 24 I guess I'm guilty of someone else planted the seed 25 a long time ago when we first started hearing about this 46 1 of a northern route. I hadn't even thought or considered 2 a southern route. I think a southern route would affect 3 me personally more. I don't know. But I think we've all 4 heard that one of the main objectives is the traffic from 5 Robins Air Force Base to I-75. I would guess, I don't 6 know this, but I would guess that there's as much traffic 7 from Robins Air Force Base headed north as there is in 8 any other direction, so why would we move it south and 9 have more people not using the road. I'm thinking that 10 the traffic coming from Warner Robins, the more northern 11 this connector is, the more utilized it will be during 12 rush hour traffic. I may be wrong. But most of the 13 traffic I know of from Robins Air Force Base to Macon, 14 they're heading north. They're not going to take the 15 southern route. 16 MODERATOR: And -- 17 MR. FAIRCLOTH: And my last point, one more 18 point, there's been a lot of talk about the interchange 19 at Sardis Church. There hasn't been much talk tonight 20 about Walden Road, the other end. That's going to affect 21 me. I'd like to know what plans or what objectives need 22 to be met on the Walden Road end. Are you going to tie 23 it in where Walden Road currently hits 247 or not? Thank 24 you. 25 MODERATOR: I think, in answer to your 47 1 first question regarding talking about the community you 2 live in, it's important that you fill out the comment 3 cards so we know these things, so the community this 4 gentleman lives in at Walden and South Walden Road, 5 that's an area we don't want to impact. Make sure you 6 let us know about issues like that. And that's going to 7 determine where we're going to put the alignment. 8 Obviously, we don't want to go down Walden Road, or South 9 Walden Road, in that area. 10 Another issue with regard to the terminus points, we 11 haven't really decided where, we want to connect into 12 247. We haven't decided how we're going to do that. And 13 I don't know if it's going to go down Walden Road or if 14 it's going to go south of there or north of there. Or, I 15 mean, I should say we're not, the Walden Road, I guess 16 where it connects to 247, either north or south of there, 17 you know, depending on where that terminus point is going 18 to be. That's fully yet to be decided. 19 And the other issue regarding the traffic you 20 brought up with people accessing 75 from 247 in Warner 21 Robins, I think that's something we need to, we're going 22 to, we need to look at right now. As we're doing these 23 in the concept phase, as we're developing the different 24 alignments, we're going to be looking at how the traffic 25 flows, and different traffic, you know, how it generates 48 1 down these different alignments. Whether it's to the 2 north, south, how that affects the vehicles that want to 3 access 75 from Warner Robins, and whether it's a southern 4 alignment or a northern route. And it's not only those 5 vehicles, only that traffic, too. People travelling from 6 Warner Robins to 75 have access issues. But it's also 7 accommodating, and being able to accommodate vehicles, 8 people traveling, from the industrial park, for instance, 9 getting to and from the airport; and, also, future 10 development along that corridor. 11 I still thing, regardless of this gentleman's 12 comment, that there is going to be some growth along the 13 corridor. There is definitely going to be some growth. 14 How much there is is something that we need to determine, 15 and that's going to be dependent on land use issues, what 16 future land use map issues, what type of future grown in 17 that corridor that the county wants, that you want, 18 that's going to happen. Robin? 19 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband, Stanley and I, 20 we live on Goodall Mill Road. And what you're talking 21 about doing, people are going to start taking shortcuts 22 down Goodall Mill Road to get to Sardis Church Road. And 23 the traffic is already, with the dump trucks doing the 24 construction. There's a lot of kids on Goodall Mill 25 Road. And we've put everything we have into that. We're 49 1 already too close to the road as it is. I'm really upset 2 thinking about all these people that are going to be 3 coming down our road, or what they're going to be doing 4 out here, and all that I see that you all really care 5 about is the money and not our families. 6 I mean we moved up here from Tampa ten years ago to 7 raise our kids in a nice quiet place, have a few animals, 8 not bother anybody, and it's nice out here. Everybody 9 that comes out to visit us talks about how nice this 10 whole area is. It's so peaceful and you don't have 11 anything to worry about. There's no crime. It's just a 12 wonderful place to raise your kids. We can't get that 13 anywhere else. 14 MODERATOR: I hear what you're saying, 15 ma'am, and I want to address your concern about traffic 16 on your two lane road, on Goodall Road. I think, you 17 know, the gentleman in the back, you were talking about a 18 southern alignment, we can build how many lanes we want. 19 Let people drive down other roads to get to this six-lane 20 road if it is, if it's away from our community. However, 21 this lady here has a problem with people driving down her 22 two lane roads because she's got children playing out 23 along the roadway, too, and out in the street or along 24 the sidewalks. And I think that's part of the problem is 25 that if you don't provide some side enough roads for, 50 1 some corridors for people to travel on, they're going to 2 take some of these two lane back roads. And I think that 3 is what that I'm trying to address, ma'am, is that some 4 of the problem may be the fact that there isn't another 5 road, another corridor, for them to take that would be 6 quicker, a quicker route for them. 7 In a lot of instances, shortcuts are there because 8 the major roadway, or the higher volume roadway, either 9 doesn't have enough lanes or it's too crowded because 10 there's too many cars on it already so people take 11 shortcuts. And I think, you know, that's something 12 that's an issue that goes along with this, you know, with 13 this project is that the arterial of the project itself, 14 the Sardis Church Road, could alleviate some of the 15 traffic down your street. Is that what you're, is that 16 the question or the concern? As I see it, I think that's 17 the concern. 18 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It sounds like it's a given 19 we're going to get a road, but we don't know where. The 20 man back here had a damn good question. What's driving 21 the need for the road? That ain't been answered yet. 22 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The man that's got the 23 money. 24 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you got an answer to 25 that question or not? What's driving the need for the 51 1 road? 2 MODERATOR: I think that's something 3 that we're in the process, the purpose and need will come 4 out of the environmental documents. 5 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What conceived the idea? 6 Something provoked the idea. Can you tell us what it is? 7 MODERATOR: I am not familiar with the 8 history of the area here. That's what the Commissioner 9 was talking about earlier was the -- 10 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, let him come up -- 11 MODERATOR: The need for the road is, 12 the need for the interchange is the development at Sardis 13 Church Road and I-75. 14 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose development? 15 MODERATOR: The industrial park. Is 16 that what is proposed in that area? 17 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the County 18 Commissioner needs to come back on the podium, too. 19 MODERATOR: Well -- 20 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Excuse me, sir. Were you 21 responsible for the format of this meeting tonight? 22 MODERATOR: Yes, I am. 23 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much. It's a 24 great improvement, and it beats running around in a semi- 25 circle. We really appreciate you doing this for us. But 52 1 there is something that you're faced with tonight, and 2 you're hearing it from everybody in this room, and people 3 are getting a little angry. But there's some history 4 here that you do need to know about as far as roads in 5 our area. 6 There's an item called the GAP Road Project. There 7 have been three concept drawings to date, six so far that 8 I'm aware of, and this community was promised in writing 9 in the Macon Telegraph and before we cast our vote for 10 any road improvements of any kind that the GAP Road 11 Project was history. Now we've seen three variations of 12 it. The Walden Road extension is yet another variation 13 of it. We cast out vote under the assumption that that 14 road was not going to be. And now it's come back again 15 under three different names. And that creates a huge 16 mistrust in the community. That's why people are going 17 to have very specific and pointed questions. And, 18 unfortunately, that's what came to you. So I thought you 19 should understand what came to us. 20 In addition to that, creating an industrial park, a 21 five lane Houston Road and possibly now a four lane 22 Sardis Church Road. It's a lot to take. And when people 23 ask for information, they're going to ask you to be very 24 specific because it's hard to hear one thing one day and 25 read an entirely different scenario in the newspaper the 53 1 next. 2 But I want you to know how much we appreciate the 3 kind of forum. If you do address people, they'll be 4 nicer the second time around, I promise. But if you 5 don't answer people's questions specifically, you're 6 going to be in for a time out here. So I appreciate you 7 giving us the opportunity to do this. It allows 8 everybody to hear everybody else's concerns, and I think 9 it's a real good idea. Thank you. 10 MODERATOR: Anybody have some Pepto 11 Bismol. Thank you for the compliment, I think. But I 12 think, I know there is a lot of history, and I'm willing 13 to, I need to be educated about the history behind the 14 project because that all goes with it. I'm a civil 15 engineer and we deal with people in our projects. And 16 there's a lot of history behind a lot of projects. And 17 certainly, I mean I'm willing to listen to you all about 18 the history behind the projects. And the reason why I'm 19 not answering point blank questions right now is because 20 I don't have the answers. And I could just shoot a bunch 21 of stuff off the cuff, but I really don't want to do that 22 right now. I'd rather just go through this process that 23 I've used, we've used before, our firm has used before on 24 previous projects whereby you have an opportunity to 25 express your concerns and needs and desires for the 54 1 project. And that way it helps us to determine it's 2 going to be an alignment that's, it's not going to make 3 everybody happy, but at least it's going to be a better 4 alignment than you would if you didn't have any input at 5 all. That's why I don't want to put any lines on the 6 paper yet. How about the lady back here, you haven't had 7 a chance to talk yet. 8 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a couple of 9 questions. How did you all determine who got 10 notification for this meeting tonight? I did not get 11 anything in the mail. Had I not heard it from some of my 12 neighbors, I wouldn't know anything about this meeting 13 tonight. Did you put any legal ads in the paper? I 14 understand from some other people that drive on further 15 south and live on further south that there were a few 16 signs up but they were in very inconspicuous places. And 17 I would like to suggest to you that the next time we have 18 a public meeting, you know, we feel like that Sardis 19 Church and the Walden Road area and Houston Road is all a 20 part of a community, whether you live down there or not. 21 You're still a part of this community. And I would 22 suggest to you all that you put a legal ad in the paper, 23 a legal public ad, not just one of those small ones, and 24 that you let all the people who live out here and who are 25 concerned about this community know about this. Don't 55 1 just send a few small cards or letters in the mail saying 2 that there is going to be a public meeting. I didn't get 3 anything. 4 MODERATOR: Well, what I tried to do, 5 in this case I really wanted to make this meeting just, 6 it works better with a smaller group because we can talk 7 about some of these issues and kind of actually work on 8 some alignments. But it's too hard with a large group 9 like this. What we did was I tried to find, that area 10 back there where that map is, we canvassed that area with 11 the property maps, got names of people who live along 12 that area there and actually sent them a letter notifying 13 them. I'm sure some of you, how many of you got letters 14 in the mail? (Hands raised). So we tried to do that. 15 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at the number of 16 people that are here because of word of mouth, and that's 17 how important this is to all of us. 18 MODERATOR: I understand. And I think 19 there's quite, have most of you seen the signs up for the 20 meeting? I hope you have. I mean I've seen quite a few 21 of them around. I don't know if there was, was there a 22 notice in the paper, Van? 23 MR. ETHERIDGE: I don't think there was. 24 MODERATOR: Okay. Well, next time 25 we'll put a notice in the paper then. 56 1 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I have one more 2 question, please. 3 MODERATOR: Okay. 4 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Put it in those legal ads 5 where they put bids and whatever that stuff is there. 6 MODERATOR: Well, the next meeting is 7 going to be more, you know, we're going to have some, at 8 that time I hope we'll have some alignments and we can 9 talk more about the traffic issues and traffic numbers, 10 the traffic study that we're going to be preparing. 11 Also, at the next meeting, there will be a lot more to 12 discuss. And this meeting, you know, what I wanted 13 definitely was to invite the people that were directly 14 affected by the project because they're the ones that 15 know most about the area in which they live, and they're 16 the ones that can tell us, tell our firm, our team, as 17 we're preparing the concepts. They can tell us the most 18 about what is important to them. 19 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. I have another 20 couple of questions. How important are the comment cards 21 that you've given us tonight? Will this be like casting 22 a vote? If we tell you now, if it goes on record that a 23 majority of people are in favor of, would be more in 24 favor of a southern route, or are you going to look 25 strictly at the comment cards and will be they go to the 57 1 State D.O.T. and the Federal Highway Administration, 2 because that's what we have found many times at the 3 Houston Road project people came up and told all the 4 officials in the room what problems they had but they 5 didn't write it down. And we want to know from you how 6 important is that going to be when it comes down to brass 7 tacks? 8 MODERATOR: The comments you give me 9 tonight are going to help our team. It's going to help 10 our team with the alignments, the alternates, the 11 different alternates we're going to look at, we're going 12 to evaluate. I'm not sure what your experience has been 13 on previous projects, but I know on projects where we've 14 done this type of process that it helps us because then 15 we've got a head start on the project, and we, before we 16 just, you know, rather than us just coming in with a 17 bunch of different alternates right there and then nobody 18 has any input and everybody is upset about certain 19 issues, at least this way we have an opportunity compile 20 whatever information is important to all of you and it 21 can help us with the alignments we're going to look at. 22 I'm not going to say we're going to make everybody 23 happy, but at least we're going to, some of the 24 alternates we choose are going to have, for instance, a 25 southern alternate. It's something we can look at. 58 1 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do you anticipate this 2 next meeting? 3 MODERATOR: Probably another, we're 4 looking at the end of May or probably the beginning of 5 June. 6 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have one other question, 7 and I think this is really kind of important. I saw in 8 yesterday's paper that Bibb County is the ninth in the 9 state with pollutants on the ground water and in the air. 10 With this new industrial site coming out here, when you 11 do the environmental impact statement, we would certainly 12 like for you to also study how much more pollution from 13 ground water and the air quality would be affected from 14 four and five lanes and this new industrial site. If you 15 can predict traffic, then you can also predict what this 16 industrial site and everything else is going to do to our 17 ground water and our air out here. 18 MODERATOR: You're right in saying 19 there will be some impacts from the industrial site. 20 However, our scope of work really doesn't include looking 21 at those impacts from the industrial site. We're looking 22 at impacts from -- 23 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then make it part of your 24 job. 25 MODERATOR: I think, I can't, really 59 1 the County needs to address that. That's really another 2 issue, ma'am. It's more of a development type issue 3 through planning and development. Is there a planning 4 and development department, Van, that would have to do 5 with looking at erosion from that site, looking at 6 pollutants from that site? 7 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you bring more cars in, 8 if you widen the road, you're going to have more ground 9 water than if you only have two lanes. I mean that's a 10 fact. 11 MODERATOR: I don't disagree with you 12 that there's going to be some impact. I don't know if I 13 agree with you that there's going to be ground water 14 pollution. There are some surface water issues as far as 15 pollution issues go. And some of those are being 16 addressed now statewide through the Environmental 17 Protection Division. They have stricter laws on that. 18 And you, as citizens, need to really get involved with 19 that on a local level on developments to make sure the 20 developer is following erosion control measures, 21 environmental, other environmental regulations. You also 22 need to get active, you know, with the County officials 23 that are monitoring those type of developments. Yes, 24 sir? 25 MR. ROSEN: Yes, my name is Frank Rosen 60 1 and I've lived out here for twenty years. And I happen 2 to know that, I believe most of the people in this room 3 has got concern about a four lane road going down to 4 Houston Road, and then they're saying, well, we're going 5 to put in a two lane road from there to 247. Everybody 6 knows if you put in a four lane road, what's going to 7 happen, traffic is going to show up, right. Then we're 8 going to have us a four lane highway to 247. We're going 9 to have an Eisenhower Parkway going through our 10 neighborhood. 11 I moved out here because of the peace and quiet. 12 I've heard a couple of people say when my neighbors come 13 out here they say, man, you've got it nice. I love it 14 out here. And I say, well, they're talking about putting 15 a road in about 150 yards from the house. I said, you 16 know, I've built a $140,000 house, and I won't be able to 17 sell it for $90,000 with a highway in the back yard. And 18 we have no recourse, really. I've talked to a gentleman 19 up against the wall on three separate occasions, and he 20 brought the map out to the house and set it down on the 21 hood of the car, and we've gone out there and he's said 22 the road is going to go right here. This is it. It's 23 owned by me. We can't afford to go the southern route. 24 We've got to use existing roads. It's cheaper. Because 25 I asked, they said what we'd really like to do is we'd 61 1 like to line this road up and run it right into the 2 industrial park where there is a road that is not being 3 utilized. There is spare land. But he said it's all 4 about money. We can't afford it. We don't have enough 5 cash. But we do have enough cash to four lane Sardis 6 Church Road. We've got enough money to put in a two lane 7 road right here going down behind the house, and then in 8 five or ten years we'll four lane the rest of it and 9 you're all living on an interstate, and I lose my 10 investment. Thank you. 11 MODERATOR: Thanks for your comment, 12 but I disagree a little bit when you say there's not 13 enough cash. I think that needs to be determined with 14 the different alternates we have. Each alternate is 15 obviously going to have a different cost involved with 16 it. And there's, you know, going down Walden Road, I 17 mean look at how much that's going to cost if you have to 18 take all those homes. Obviously that's not an alternate. 19 But there's other things -- 20 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's my damn house you're 21 talking about. 22 MODERATOR: I'm just using that as an 23 example. That's not something we're going to do. 24 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's not get the road. 25 Let's not develop South Bibb County. Let's just leave it 62 1 alone. 2 MODERATOR: Yes, you can have some kind 3 of regs that don't allow any development in South Bibb 4 County then -- 5 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I like it like it is. 6 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah. 7 MODERATOR: I'm just trying to address 8 the gentleman's concerns about growth, and I don't know 9 how you stop the growth. They've tried to do that around 10 Atlanta and it's the same problem up there. It's the 11 same problem in any large community within Georgia. 12 Augusta. Savannah. You're going to have -- 13 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You went right through my 14 house and didn't even pause. 15 MODERATOR: Pardon? 16 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In your mind, you went 17 right through my house and didn't even pause. I mean 18 it's nothing to you. 19 MODERATOR: No. The point I'm trying 20 to make is that there's other, the cost issues aren't 21 just the cost of the roadway itself, it's all the other 22 impacts that are involved with the roadway, too. 23 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I made the statement 24 that it was about money, I was just repeating what I was 25 told. You know, things might have changed in the last 63 1 six months. That's just the information I had. 2 MODERATOR: Well, I can assure you that 3 we're not going to discount an alternate just because it 4 costs too much. 5 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for that. 6 MODERATOR: That's all I can say to 7 you. I mean we're going to ask, part of our concept 8 studies will look at the costs that we have. I can 9 assure you we're not going down Walden Road, I mean the 10 part where the, what's the south part of Walden Road? 11 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: South Walden. 12 MODERATOR: There's too much historic 13 and community development in that area. Now, I'm not 14 saying one of the alternates couldn't be the extension of 15 Walden Road to the north. That's certainly a viable 16 alternate. It's just an alternate, one of the viable 17 alternates. The alternate the gentleman gave me earlier, 18 the southern route, that's one we can consider, too. But 19 I can assure you, the south part of Walden Road, we're 20 not going down that way. There is another, right down 21 Walden Road we're not going to be, but to the north or 22 south of you, yeah. Yes, ma'am, go ahead. 23 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This has got to do with 24 (lots of shushing by audience). This has got to do with 25 the industrial park. Why can't they make a road from 64 1 Hartley Bridge Road. I mean they already have their 2 interchange. And you said that Hartley Bridge Road has, 3 you know, connections to 247. Well, it's not any better 4 than what Sardis Church Road, you know, it has the same 5 connection. You're saying Sardis Church, Hartley Bridge 6 Road doesn't have a big four lane on it going straight to 7 247. Do you understand what I'm saying? Hartley Bridge 8 Road is only a two lane road and then you go to Houston 9 Road, and then you go down to Allen Road. It's the same 10 thing. You know, if you're going to put an exit ramp 11 there at Sardis Church Road, it can be the same thing. 12 We can still keep our two lane roads. It's not -- 13 MODERATOR: I know Hartley Bridge Road, 14 the interchange there -- 15 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can't they get from there 16 to this industrial land? That land, I mean why stick a 17 road there on the side of the Interstate, I mean -- 18 MODERATOR: I know they're redoing the 19 interchange at Hartley Bridge. 20 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, why can't they add a 21 road -- 22 MODERATOR: And it's going to be four 23 laned, Hartley Bridge is going to be four lanes. 24 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why can't they have a road 25 down to the industrial park? Why do they have to have 65 1 that exit ramp there at Sardis Church? Only as an exit 2 to the industrial park and the airport, which is a big 3 flop. Everybody knows that. So what if everybody here 4 said, no, we don't want that entrance and exit ramp? 5 We're not children. But you all are going to say, we 6 need this. I mean we say we don't need it. 7 MODERATOR: I can't speak for the 8 Commissioners. They've obviously, there is some need for 9 the interchange at Sardis Church, and Commissioner 10 Justice talked about that need before. 11 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the need? 12 MODERATOR: He discussed the need. 13 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then Hartley Bridge 14 Road -- 15 MR. HATTAWAY: We need that interchange. 16 MODERATOR: It has to do with 17 development around the interchange and development along 18 Sardis Church and the industrial development, and that 19 west of 75 and also industrial access to the airport and 20 the industrial airport over by the airport. 21 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hartley Bridge Road is 22 going four lane? 23 MODERATOR: I know at the interchange 24 it is. 25 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How far down? 66 1 MODERATOR: I can't answer that. I 2 haven't seen. There are preliminary plans. If you talk 3 to the D.O.T., the urban, they have plans. You can view 4 their preliminary plans. I don't know exactly how far 5 it's going, but I know that interchange itself is very 6 dangerous. It's very accident prone and it needs to be 7 reconstructed. Yes, sir? 8 MR. HATTAWAY: Could I say something? 9 MODERATOR: Sure. 10 MR. HATTAWAY: I'm Ray Hattaway, and I 11 live where the Sardis Church Road interchange is, and we 12 need that Sardis Church Road interchange. I've lived out 13 here for 28 years, and I don't know how many of you all 14 have drove down 475 and 75 and tried to get off at 15 Hartley Bridge Road. That's a dangerous intersection, 16 and we need the interchange at Sardis Church Road. 17 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about if it was further 18 south, would that be even better, though? 19 MR. HATTAWAY: No, it wouldn't be as good 20 because they're using Skipper Road now. 21 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why wouldn't it be better 22 if you had more room to get over there. I mean why would 23 you have to get over at Sardis Church? If you went a 24 little bit further, wouldn't it be even safer? 25 MR. HATTAWAY: Sardis Church crosses the 67 1 Interstate. If you build anything else, you've got to 2 build a road completely across the Interstate all the way 3 around in other people's neighborhoods. So you've 4 already got the road through there. Why do that? It 5 just doesn't make sense to me. And, so, I wish you all 6 would look at that. 7 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I don't mind the 8 interchange being there, but basically this is going to 9 be a commercial corridor between the Interstate and 247. 10 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're not doing it to 11 help you, they're doing it to -- 12 (**REPORTER'S NOTE: Several people talking at one time. 13 Inaudible for a moment or two.**) 14 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All that farm land, there's 15 going to be houses out there. They're going to bring in 16 commercial traffic on top of the development. If you go 17 on and have the interchange now, if they're only going to 18 give us the interchange if we have this commercial 19 corridor, let's say, no. Then later on, if we have 20 enough development that they'll let us have that 21 interchange without the corridor, I'd say, yes, to the 22 interchange. 23 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. 24 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And tell the County 25 Commissioners they better not expect to be in office next 68 1 time. 2 MODERATOR: I think this gentleman 3 brings a good point here. You recognize the fact there 4 are going to be, there is going to be some development 5 along that corridor. It's just a matter of what type of 6 development that you're concerned about. 7 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I don't want a 8 commercial corridor right on top of me. 9 MODERATOR: When you say, commercial, 10 how do you mean? Do you mean something other than 11 subdivisions? 12 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The industrial park, what 13 we're talking about. We're talking about semi trucks and 14 all sorts of commercial traffic. 15 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. 16 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We ought to be getting Bibb 17 County to connect to the Interstate through Highway 41 if 18 we want industrial and commercial type things, but we 19 don't need one in this area. 20 MODERATOR: I think it's difficult to 21 restrict, when you develop a highway, it's kind of 22 difficult to restrict growth. 23 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don't have the 24 corridor, you can't have the commercial property. 25 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you lived out here, you 69 1 wouldn't feel that way, see. You'd understand if you 2 lived out here. But you don't live out here so you don't 3 understand that. 4 MODERATOR: I do live somewhere and I 5 understand what you're saying. 6 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you don't live here. 7 MODERATOR: And, obviously, I don't 8 want a lot of semis coming down my road either. I hear 9 what you're saying. But the type of development I have 10 in my neighborhood, I control it because I'm on, through 11 a community involvement group. I mean we've got 12 something to say as far as the type of land use zoning 13 that they have in DeKalb County where I live. Down here, 14 you've got just as much to say in Bibb County. 15 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you don't. 16 MODERATOR: Well, you can say 17 something. I don't know exactly how much. I mean I 18 can't argue with you about that. 19 MR. MASON: If I could, though, let me, please, 20 capsule what this gentleman has said. I live and have 21 lived off and on for forty years at the terminus at 247 22 where the first proposal for the GAP Project was 23 envisioned and designed. I think what people want to 24 know, and what you as a consultant can't really deal 25 with, but you have to understand the concern, is that 70 1 people here do not fear development. What they do not 2 want to see is Sub-South turned into South Macon. 3 Secondly, they want the development to be more like 4 Zebulon Road instead of Eisenhower Parkway where it 5 remains primarily residential with some commercial that 6 services the residential. Thirdly, their fears are that 7 they have less input than the rest of Bibb County, and 8 they have that fear because of previous experience. 9 Could you address the issue of what developmental studies 10 envision for this corridor in the way of development. 11 Now, if developmental studies have been done, then there 12 are some idea, there is some picture or some scenarios of 13 what might develop as developers move into the corridor. 14 I think these are the fears that people have. They have 15 seen it happen before. They don't want it to happen 16 here. They feel as though they do not have 17 representation proportionate to their income and 18 resources. And, so, if you could speak to the 19 developmental studies and to remember that they 20 understand development. You're not talking to people 21 here who do not want Bibb County to grow. They want it 22 to be residential. And they understand that the people 23 making the developmental studies for Bibb County do not 24 include a lot of folks in Bibb County, and never have. 25 And they just want to have those concerns addressed. 71 1 Now, you, as a consultant, probably can't address 2 those. But they want you to hear that and to see that 3 they are addressed. And that's all that these folks, I 4 believe, want. They're not trying to shut down 5 development. They're not trying to avoid having growth. 6 MODERATOR: What is your name, sir? 7 You probably need to get some -- 8 MR. MASON: Tom Mason. 9 MODERATOR: Mr. Mason, I agree with you 10 as far as, you know, you want to be able to control the 11 type of growth in the neighborhood and area that you 12 live. As a consultant, we're an engineering consultant. 13 We're not going to be doing any economic development type 14 studies for this type, for this project. We're going to 15 be doing, looking at development along the corridor as 16 proposed by the County, and we're going to be looking at 17 land use maps and talking to some of you folks right now, 18 too. We want to know from you if you know of some 19 future, if you're selling your land or you know of 20 something that's coming around, some type of development 21 that's coming in. That affects our projected traffic 22 growth. 23 However, my suggestion is that the only way you can 24 affect the type of development you have in your community 25 is actually to go and speak with the people who are 72 1 responsible for producing land use and zoning within your 2 county. And that's the same issues I have where I live, 3 too. And, I mean, our corridor study is going to address 4 the projected future development, but we can't control 5 that development. And I understand your concern as far 6 as the type of development that sprouts up along the 7 corridor. But whether there is a roadway there or not, 8 the development is going to happen. It's just a matter 9 of how you affect that development. What type of 10 development do you want? And that's not something that's 11 going to be, that necessarily the road project is going 12 to, or the road is going to be able to affect. 13 And, Mr. Mason, is there something -- 14 MR. MASON: I lived in DeKalb County, 15 too, for a number of years. 16 MODERATOR: Okay. 17 MR. MASON: I understand the game 18 works. I understand the way this game works. I'm just 19 saying the people have a right, they want you to listen 20 to them with some sense of understanding that there are 21 real issues here, not just people that want to protect 22 their own little thing. There are significant issues for 23 the County, for the history of, for the future of this 24 county. There are definite issues about what happens to 25 Sub-South developmentally. It cannot go any further in 73 1 North Macon. They cannot get enough Macon in southern 2 Monroe County to do significant development at prices 3 that would make it cost effective. So, you know, people 4 here want to make sure that we're not the place where 5 development is directed for the sake of industrial 6 growth. 7 MODERATOR: I hear what you're saying. 8 And the purpose of this open forum and this discussion 9 right now to solicit your input because I want to hear 10 what you have to say. I want you to put it down on 11 comment cards. But there is only so much I can do as far 12 as affecting development along the corridor. And I want 13 you to know that I'm here, we're here to listen to the 14 concerns that you have, but we have a certain limitation 15 on what we're doing as an engineering kind of thing with 16 the roadway, and the study we'll be looking at, 17 obviously, is future growth along the corridor, but we 18 can't really affect the development along the corridor 19 with the roadway. 20 Now, it's not going to affect the type of 21 development that occurs along the road. I just want to 22 emphasize that. The type of development that occurs 23 along the roadway is going to be impacted by land use and 24 zoning type issues, not so much the roadway itself. 25 MR. BROOKS: Sir, my name is Jim Brooks, 74 1 and we would probably just as soon you not have found out 2 that we were out here in South Bibb County to be honest 3 with you. 4 I'm a newcomer out here. I hadn't been here but 22 5 years living in the same place. And if you look around 6 at this group here, there's people that have been here a 7 lot longer. 8 I think it's important that you understand that what 9 we would like to do is for you to look at these options. 10 I understand wetlands. I understand land use. I 11 understand how things can be moved north or south if 12 that's what needs to be done. But the greatest good and 13 the least impact is really what we're looking for. 14 To the gentleman up front who said we need something 15 there at Sardis Church Road. We need something that 16 alleviates Houston Road. We need something that 17 certainly impacts Allen Road. The people out at Warner 18 Robins who work out there, and thank God they're there, 19 you know, for economic impact, that road, if it goes 20 south, is going to be north of Allen Road, and it's going 21 to help those people that are trying to get back into 22 Monroe and other places where they live. 23 I would hope that as you all develop your plan, that 24 you come up with alternatives that we that live out here 25 every day can look at prior to somebody making a decision 75 1 somewhere. 2 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. 3 MR. BROOKS: You know, if it's a 4 wetlands issue, then hasn't that, you talk about 5 environmental issues. That's important. Whether the 6 ducks live down there and the frogs and all that stuff, 7 us old boys who live out here in South Macon, you know, 8 we're part of the ducks and the geese and everything else 9 out here. 10 Before I get clear to South Georgia on you, I want 11 you to understand we appreciate your time and effort to 12 come out here and listen to us if it's going to produce 13 some results of you taking your time and us taking our 14 time to be here. We've got to have a corridor that 15 connects 247 and someplace out Hartley Bridge Road. 16 There's places out there that things can grow. You know, 17 it may not suit us all and it may not be the best it can 18 be, but running a big four lane road right beside 19 somebody's house, like down Sardis Church, is going to be 20 really disruptive. If there's an alternative to that, we 21 ask you to lay out two corridors north and two corridors 22 south, or whatever it is, and look at the total impact to 23 include the folks that live here. Thank you for allowing 24 me to speak. 25 MODERATOR: We're going to take into 76 1 consideration, you know, the comments that we receive 2 from this meeting tonight and come up with some different 3 alternates that we're going to present at the next 4 meeting. And, you know, I just want to assure you that, 5 you know, I'm not doing this, you know, I'm doing this 6 because it's going to help, I think, with, help with our 7 whole process, our whole engineering process. And rather 8 than just coming in here with some preconceived notions 9 about things, we wanted to, you know, give you an 10 opportunity before we started engineering. 11 Let's have a few more questions, and then, please, 12 on your way out, please fill out the comment forms. If 13 you don't have time to do it here, I've got some that 14 are, like I said, of course, self-addressed and stamped, 15 and you can take them home and just send them in. Just 16 staple them, fold them in half, staple them and send them 17 and they'll go directly to me. I'll compile all the 18 comments and at the next meeting we'll have we'll make 19 public like a synopsis of the comments and talk about 20 some of these issues at the next meeting. Let's have a 21 few more questions. Yes? 22 MR. TURNER: Hi. My name is Kenneth 23 Turner. I'm a resident of South Bibb County and have 24 been for 32 years. I think that it's a pretty good idea, 25 and about the only reasonable location I can think of to 77 1 have the interchange at Sardis Church Road. But I do 2 hope that you run it as much as possible across 3 uninhabited land. I mean I concur with Mr. Brooks that 4 we need to look at the environment. We're the 5 environment, too, and, as you know, we can't preserve 6 every rat, every rabbit or every squirrel. And I think 7 if you're familiar with the intersection of Walden Road 8 and Sardis Church, that if you can, I don't know if you 9 want to, I don't know if there are any plans to run along 10 Walden Road up to Industrial Highway and then onward to 11 247, but if you could cross uninhabited land that lies a 12 mile from Sardis Church Road along Walden Road up to 13 Georgia 247, that would lessen the impact. 14 And I want to say another thing. A lot of you get 15 shaky about change. The community is changing. Yes, it 16 is changing. There's not a lot anybody around here can 17 do about it, and we need to accommodate those changes. 18 And I'm willing to put my head on the chopping block and 19 say that the Sardis Church Road interchange should have 20 been implemented as part of the Interstate Highway System 21 running through Macon during the '60's. It would 22 probably have saved lots of lives. 23 But as a little background, Highway 361 was sort of 24 a poor man's perimeter running through southwest Bibb 25 County northward, and I guess that was the reason, if I'm 78 1 not mistaken, that the Hartley Bridge Road interchange 2 was erected. 3 I wish to thank you for coming out here and meeting 4 with us, and I hope you'll take all the comments, 5 positive and negative, seriously and do what's right for 6 everybody as far as safety and the welfare of the 7 community. 8 MODERATOR: Thank you for your 9 comments, sir, and I just want to stress that after we 10 get done with the questions here I'll be around if 11 anybody else wants to ask me anymore questions, or Robin. 12 And we can talk back by the photo, too, so you can get an 13 idea, if I can help you out with different issues that 14 you may have in relation to the roadway, the network 15 itself. That way we can kind of talk about some 16 different comments that we can present at the next 17 meeting. How about a couple more questions before we 18 break. This lady and then this gentleman here. 19 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Several of my questions 20 have already been answered. But one thing, this meeting 21 has done nothing but confuse me. At the next meeting, 22 are you going to bring and say this is what's going to be 23 done or are you going to have several things for us to 24 look at so that we can kind of put more input because 25 right now all we can tell you is what we don't want and 79 1 stomp our foot, and you dropped your stuff in the rain. 2 MODERATOR: Well, I was joking about 3 that. 4 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know. But it's not 5 getting us anywhere. 6 MODERATOR: Well, I understand. It is 7 getting us somewhere because it's letting us know, 8 letting our design team know what's important to you so 9 we don't come at the next meeting with some alternatives 10 that we know you don't like. 11 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you're actually bringing 12 something the next time? 13 MODERATOR: Yeah. We're going to have 14 some alternates at the next meeting. That's what we 15 intend to do. 16 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will that be the only 17 meeting or will there be other meetings? 18 MODERATOR: There will be another 19 meeting. There will be probably, there will be at least 20 one more meeting after that, or probably two more 21 meetings. One of them will be just a follow-up meeting. 22 And then another one will be for the environmental 23 document. 24 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So the last meeting will be 25 you telling us what you're going to do? 80 1 MODERATOR: We'll probably have 2 selected alternates. We need to work with the -- it will 3 be probably one or two selected alternates at the last 4 meeting, and that will coincide with the environmental 5 document. 6 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. I've just been 7 confused tonight. 8 MODERATOR: Well, we're taking down 9 these meetings so we can refine things and we're getting 10 closer and closer and closer to a preferred alternate. 11 Okay, how about just this gentleman, this gentleman and 12 this gentleman and that's it, and then we can talk about 13 -- this gentleman here had a comment, too. Why don't you 14 go ahead and speak and then we'll let this gentleman up 15 here talk. 16 MR. HAYES: I'm Doug Hayes. I've been 17 greatly involved in the roads program in South Bibb 18 County. And there are a lot of concerns that even 19 tonight have been not been expressed. One of the things 20 that I hope you will hear from us tonight is that we want 21 you to plan the road system in this community. We don't 22 want to pick two points, find the closest road and make a 23 connection. That's not planning. 24 I disagree with you on the comment that you made 25 about the roads and them being not necessarily planning 81 1 tools. I think roads are great planning tools. 2 MODERATOR: I agree with you. 3 MR. HAYES: I think if we can select 4 the right alternatives, if we can locate the roads in the 5 right places, we can plan this community for the future. 6 In fact, if you would be willing to meet with a few of 7 us, there is already a plan in place that we have done 8 that shows this total community, that shows future 9 development, that shows road planning process, and it 10 shows a great way to help plan our community. But most 11 of all, a way to protect our community. And if you have 12 listened tonight, you know that we want to protect this 13 community. It means a lot to a lot of us. And we want 14 to make sure we're heard. 15 We've been shouting this message for better than 16 eight months now, and no one has listened to anything 17 that we had to say. As of right now, under bid is a five 18 lane road right out in front of us. None of us are happy 19 about that. We don't feel like it was properly handled. 20 We feel like it is completely unnecessary. And we're not 21 going to give up. I said that the day I started on this 22 and I'll say it until the road is in place. We're going 23 to fight to protect our community. It's a great place to 24 live. You don't have this many people turn out to voice 25 their opinion unless they have a vested interest in this 82 1 community. 2 Van, I would like to see whatever happens that Mr. 3 Kulash look at this system. We have asked for him on 4 Houston Road. We've asked for him to look at the 5 community. And I'd like to see that he's a part of 6 looking at this road system. 7 And I hope to goodness that the traffic counts you 8 come up with don't have the flaws in them that I have 9 found in all of the other traffic counts that I've looked 10 at. 11 And, also, I would like to know when you come back 12 what comprehensive land development plan we're looking 13 at. Because as of right now, the 2015 plan is in place, 14 and there's not another one adopted. And if we're going 15 to use another one, I would like to see it adopted before 16 we start using it. 17 But I would be glad to sit down with you as long as 18 you want to listen and talk to you about the road system 19 in this part of the county. And I think you'll be quite 20 surprised at what we've been able to do through our 21 efforts out here. Thanks for listening to us, but I hope 22 you do listen because I've already heard one comment that 23 disturbs me tonight that really wasn't true. 24 It was stated that the industrial development is a 25 world class site. Lockwood Green's report calls that a 83 1 site of regional significance. So I mean I hope we can 2 get the truth in these meetings and not stories to tickle 3 our ears. Thank you. 4 MODERATOR: I appreciate your comments. 5 Just to address a couple of your comments, sir. I'll be 6 happy to meet with you. If you have an updated land use 7 plan, we are in the process right now, obviously, of 8 taking the most updated. We want to use the most updated 9 land use plan for the area. And I agree with you, the 10 roadway network can be planned to affect the type -- the 11 point I'm trying to make is it's important to plan the 12 roadway network within the community, and it can affect 13 the type of community you have. The thing it can't do, 14 though, it can't affect, it's going to influence growth. 15 It's just it doesn't have influence on the type of growth 16 there is, whether it's commercial, industrial or 17 residential because a lot of that is determined by land 18 use zoning and plans. 19 MR. HAYES: Well, this area is 20 currently zoned low density residential except for a few 21 spot locations. So that's in place. Now you need to 22 circle these roads where they don't come through the 23 residential areas. 24 MODERATOR: If the land use plan shows 25 low density residential, that's what we use to generate 84 1 traffic for our traffic study. There's no need to 2 fabricate something that's not there, and we're not going 3 to do that. That's what we're going to use, the land use 4 plan to generate the traffic as it's shown right now. If 5 it's low density residential, then there is not going to 6 be that much commercial development. Robin, how about go 7 ahead back there and then this gentleman right here. 8 MR. THOMAS: My name is Scott Thomas. 9 First of all, I'd like to thank you for having this forum 10 tonight for us to come out and speak and voice our 11 opinion on this thing. I've been out in this area for 46 12 years, so I've seen a lot of changes come and go. A lot 13 of them have been good and a lot of them have been bad so 14 to speak. As a matter of fact, there's two subdivisions 15 going up now that's land we used to play on when I was a 16 young'un. 17 It concerns me sometimes when I hear folks talking 18 about running these roads through uninhabited areas. But 19 what about the farmer that owns that land, you're taking 20 his livelihood away from him, so we need to keep that in 21 consideration, ladies and gentlemen. Utilize the roads 22 that are in place. Make them so they will be the most 23 efficient and most effective route that we can get in the 24 same general concept and keep it to where it's the least 25 harmful to our neighborhoods. Because I, myself, don't 85 1 want to see this are grow into an industrial area either, 2 but I also understand and see the growth that has 3 transpired in 46 years. South Bibb County is the only 4 place Bibb County has left to grow, and if we don't jump 5 on it now and tend to it now, then it's going to bite us 6 in the rear when we don't want it and we'll wind up with 7 what we sure don't want. So now we have input here. The 8 forum is going now to where we can give our ideas to get 9 the best for everybody on both sides of the street. And, 10 once again, thank you, sir. 11 MODERATOR: And you bring up a lot of 12 good points because there is certainly a lot of impacts 13 no matter which alignment we have and which alternate we 14 look at. There's different kinds of impacts along each 15 alignment, and we want to minimize the amount of impacts 16 obviously. You know, that's one of the objectives. 17 Right there, sir. 18 MR. WADSWORTH: My name is Jim Wadsworth. 19 I live west of I-75 off of Sardis Church Road. But one 20 thing I have observed over the years, and which could be 21 an alternate for this whole thing, it won't be an 22 alternate for an industrial facility. It would be very 23 difficult to connect it. However, the Industrial 24 Highway, which is a State road through Airport Industrial 25 Park to I-75 in Byron, that's a terribly rough road. 86 1 People don't like to drive it because it's not really a 2 well suited road. However, you have a brand new four 3 lane bridge across the river that was reconstructed after 4 the flood. I don't understand why this alternate route 5 is not considered as an alternate connection from I-75 to 6 the Airport Industrial Park and the airport to 247. 7 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. 8 MR. WADSWORTH: There's a lot of stuff 9 already laid out there, including that new bridge. I 10 think it should be considered even if it's not fully 11 developed. It could really relieve any kind of 12 industrial traffic on the roads you're proposing. 13 MODERATOR: Why don't you meet with me 14 after this so I can see better about the alignment you're 15 talking about, or put it in the comments and that's one 16 we'll take a look at. Are you talking about to the 17 south? 18 MR. WADSWORTH: Yes. 19 MODERATOR: Okay. Well, I think that's 20 the alignment the gentleman over here presented to me. 21 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. They're talking about 22 two different things. 23 MODERATOR: Totally different, all 24 right. I need to get together with you, sir, after this 25 meeting and you can show me where specifically you're 87 1 talking about. 2 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The problem is it goes 3 through another county. It would take the counties to 4 work together. 5 MODERATOR: Any other questions? We'll 6 take two more questions if there are any. Yeah, I think 7 these two gentlemen back here. And then let's close the 8 meeting, and please fill the comment cards out. 9 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just wanted to ask about 10 Hartley Bridge Road, what's going on up there. 11 MODERATOR: The Hartley Bridge Road 12 interchange, we are coordinating that interchange with a 13 consultant who is working on that. There is going to be 14 a total reconstruction of that interchange, a widening of 15 Hartley Bridge Road, and I know they have proposed just 16 some major realignment of the ramps to make the sight 17 distance better and to improve traffic flow at that 18 interchange. I do not know specifically about how many 19 lanes there are or ramps and that sort of thing, but I 20 know it's going to be a great improvement over the way it 21 is right now because to me it's a real safety issue. 22 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are there going to be some 23 ramps going over the interstate? 24 MODERATOR: I think what they have 25 proposed to do is probably have some type of what's 88 1 called a collector distributor road, and the purpose of 2 that is to try to keep the traffic that's on I-75 going 3 north or south and connecting with I-475, to try to keep 4 that traffic separated so that's there not so much of a 5 merging there and so you're not merging traffic with the 6 through traffic so you can make better turning movements 7 with the direction that you want to go. I don't know if 8 that really answers your question. I guess I'd try to 9 relate it to somewhere around Atlanta because it's going 10 to be more of a major interchange with collector 11 distributor type roads. I can get some plans for that. 12 I'll tell you what. At the next meeting, sir, I'll bring 13 some concept plans for what they have, how is that, at 14 the next meeting. Then you can get a better idea. You 15 know, we'll put them off to the side so you can take a 16 look at them. 17 MS. PUCKETT: My name is Rosalyn Puckett, 18 and I was shown on a map by one of the County officials 19 that the real whole picture of this is to bring a four 20 lane down from Tucker Road to Bass to Fulton Mill to 21 Sardis Church and all the way over to 247. We're 22 stopping it at 247, excuse me, at Sardis Church Road and 23 the interchange. But I have been shown on a map where 24 the idea is to bring it all the way from up there so we 25 can move the people from North Macon over to 247. Do you 89 1 have any knowledge of that at all? 2 MODERATOR: I don't know about that 3 project. Maybe Van, do you know anything about that 4 project? 5 MR. ETHERIDGE: There is a project in your 6 Roads Program called the western loop. And it starts up 7 at I-75 at Bass Road and it comes down Bass into Foster 8 Road, turns into Tucker Road, and then to Heath Road. 9 That project ends at I-75, not I-75, at Eisenhower 10 Parkway on the south. And that corridor study is being 11 done looking at what needs to be done along that 12 corridor. Now, that's as far as the plan goes at this 13 time, or any plan I've heard of. 14 MS. PUCKETT: Well, Vernon Ryles is the 15 one that showed it to me, and he showed it coming all the 16 way to Fulton Mill and all the way down. He called it 17 the Western Loop and Vernon is the one who showed it to 18 me, and Bob Fountain. 19 And I just have one more question for you. Hartley 20 Bridge Road, we've raised this question many times to Van 21 and others, it is a straight shot over to 247. There is 22 no residences behind, Hartley Bridge Road dead ends at 23 Houston Road, but it's a straight shot over. You don't 24 cross any railroad tracks. It's a straight shot. We 25 cannot get anybody to listen to that. You're going to be 90 1 crossing a railroad track if you go Walden Road, which is 2 going to be a big expense. 3 MODERATOR: Well, I just want to 4 emphasize that we're in the process of developing the 5 traffic and concept report. It's not just, I know 6 there's been a lot of talk about traffic that's accessing 7 75 or 247, vice versa, either from Warner Robins or from 8 I-75, and that's not the only traffic, too. There is 9 also traffic that's going to be, that needs to be 10 accommodated for future development and future growth 11 along Sardis Church and Walden Road, along that corridor 12 also. And I think that's, it's not just the traffic 13 that's just short cutting or coming across from 247. Is 14 that the point that I think you're trying to make? 15 That's also traffic within the corridor itself that needs 16 to be accommodated, future traffic growth. 17 MS. PUCKETT: Are you talking about on 18 Sardis Church Road? 19 MODERATOR: Yes. 20 MS. PUCKETT: We're having a traffic 21 problem on Sardis Church Road? 22 MODERATOR: I'm not saying you're 23 having one now. In the future with future development. 24 MS. PUCKETT: We will have one, yes. If 25 we have a four lane road we're definitely going to have a 91 1 traffic problem. That's what I was trying to tell you. 2 There is not one down there now. 3 MODERATOR: I'm talking about 20 years 4 from now. If they don't come there, do you think they're 5 going to come, don't you think they're going to come 6 somewhere? 7 MS. PUCKETT: But they don't have to come 8 through somebody's yard. 9 MODERATOR: Pardon? 10 MS. PUCKETT: They don't have to come 11 right through somebody's yard. They don't have to go 12 right through somebody's residential property so that 13 these people can travel. That's what we're begging for 14 is to work -- 15 MODERATOR: And that's the purpose of 16 this meeting is to find some alternates so we can 17 minimize some of those impacts. 18 MS. PUCKETT: And I just want to make 19 this comment, and maybe no one in here agrees with this, 20 but I feel very unfortunate to you that you were left 21 hanging with no County Commissioners to back you up. 22 MODERATOR: That's what I get paid for, 23 but not enough for tonight. I must have a target on my 24 back somewhere. Anyway, let's wrap things up. Please 25 fill out the comment sheets, and I'll be happy to, Robin 92 1 and I will be happy to answer any further questions you 2 have. 3 (OPEN MEETING CONCLUDED. INDIVIDUAL COMMENTS FOLLOW.) 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ALBERT HAWKINS, JR. 93 1 Address: 7303 Hawkinsville Road, Macon, GA 31216 2 Comments: 3 As long as you don't need any additional right-of- 4 way and will agree to put up a traffic light at this 5 intersection of 247 and Walden Road, I have no opposition 6 to the idea and would greatly encourage the road being 7 put in. However, if you're going to need more right-of- 8 way, that's going to cause a tremendous burden on not 9 only my property but everyone else's property along the 10 route in that particular area. I would suggest that an 11 alternative route would be one, let's see, two blocks 12 south where the four lane turns off of 247 going into the 13 Macon Airport. At that point we already have a four lane 14 highway, and if somehow we could start at that point and 15 take as little of people's property as possible, avoiding 16 the residential area, and going over to 247, I think it 17 would be much much better for the entire community. I 18 would like to see a proposal on that if at all possible. 19 But if that's not feasible and you don't need any 20 additional right-of-way on Walden Road and drop that down 21 to a two lane, there again, I don't disagree with the 22 proposed idea at this point. 23 24 25 94 1 2 LINDSAY HOLLIDAY 3 Address: 360 Spring Street, Macon, GA 31201 4 Comments: 5 I would like to request that the records be open in 6 the form of an electronic data text from the court 7 reporter that could easily be published on the Internet, 8 and I would like a copy of that, and I would be willing 9 to pay for it. Thank you. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 95 1 FRANK DOWD 2 Address: 4785 Sardis Church Road, Macon, GA 31216 3 Comments: 4 I think the interchange at Hartley Bridge can be 5 changed. If they redesign that that will eliminate a lot 6 of the safety issues that were brought up. People trying 7 to get off the Interstate there not being able to cross 8 over. 9 If we do put an off ramp at Sardis Church, I think 10 it should go south. The guy spoke tonight about the two 11 lane road, about keeping traffic off a two lane road 12 because of kids playing and things like that. I live on 13 Sardis Church. If we four lane it, you know, what about 14 my kids? 15 I've got, you know, he was dancing around. He was 16 not a politician like Larry Justice. He should be 17 listening to Larry Justice maybe because Larry has had a 18 lot of experience at it and knows how to dance around 19 things. No one really knew tonight what was happening. 20 As you could see, we had conflict there between Van 21 Etheridge and Joe Allen, both of them thinking two 22 different things. I think they have, you know, this is 23 not the first time, and I'm glad Joe spoke up for us. 24 I don't see a need for the road going through to 25 247. They've got the Russell Parkway down there that 96 1 they're going to do the extension from the Base out to 2 Interstate 75. We need to look at that. 3 Also, the guy mentioned about the traffic flow, 4 moving people through the community, and he danced around 5 the issue of the trucks going through Sardis Church and 6 creating problems with trash. I've already had one of 7 the dump trucks to dump asphalt in my road, in my front 8 yard. You know, they're not supposed to be going through 9 there now. They go through at high speeds. I can 10 imagine what it's going to be like with a four lane road 11 through there. And I'm just very much against a road 12 going through the residential section. 13 There are a lot of homes there. It will turn into 14 another Bloomfield, Rocky Creek Road. If we put four 15 lanes in there, a lot of folks' front yards are going to 16 be done away with. When I moved out there, it was a 17 rural community. Right now I would love to sell my home 18 to move away from Sardis Church Road because of what is 19 going to happen there. But I feel like my value has just 20 dropped considerably knowing that there is going to be a 21 four lane road there. 22 I know there's saying there's not anything on record 23 about a four lane road, but it keeps popping up. And 24 just like on the Houston Road deal, when it came out 25 originally it was the narrow road. They came back and 97 1 told us, no, we changed it to the four lane, five lane 2 road. I just feel like that South Bibb there's a lot of 3 things being pushed down on us that we really don't 4 deserve out here. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 98 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER STATE OF GEORGIA COUNTY OF BIBB. I hereby certify that the within and foregoing record is a true, complete and correct transcript of the comments received by me at the public hearing held as aforesaid on April 29, 1999 at Porter Community Center in Macon, Georgia, beginning at approximately 5:30 p.m. This 4th day of June, 1999. Certificate No. B-1238 99